Recrutes: Hockey scouting from a professional perspective from Grant McCagg and Habs coverage from a 33 year veteran covering the NHL from Brian Wilde.
November 27, 2017
By Brian Wilde
In an odd scheduling quirk, the Habs faced the Blue Jackets at the Bell Centre for the second time in two weeks. The Habs lost the first meeting 2-1 in overtime. To the Wilde Horses to see how the second meeeting went…
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Would be tough to give up Pacioretty, but we have to find a center. Wingers, no matter how great, won’t cut it.
Such a tempting question at the end. I keep reading your tweets about RNH and I keep picturing him between Gallagher and hudon. And I suddenly see a great line for years. One on One? I don’t think so. I’m probably dreaming thinking we need to swoop klefbom in the deal but the struggling d would be welcomed by me.
One for one I’d make it, we need the center more then the winger.
RNH for Patches? Wow – don’t know if I’d do that. They’d want Lindgren included in a bigger deal. So who comes back if Lindgren is included? Lucic? That’s a big contract. Lots of fun to speculate though. I like RNH a lot.
If they want Lindgren , I’d want Yamamoto.
If Habs can Land RNH we can say they have a legitimate center depth to compete. To get him we would have to pay a heavy price
Yes.
Who is involved in your 5 player deal Brian? Mine would be Max, Shaw, Davidson for RNH and Klefbom or Nurse. Solves 2 problems with Habs. LHD and Center.
I would do Max for RNH straight up. Question is, would PC and MB do it?
That’s a tough one Brian. Points wise, I think pacioretty is a 65pt player and I think RNH is a 55-60pt player. He’s a #2C in my eyes and pacioretty is an elite sniper. I haven’t liked 67’s game of late and I don’t want that to cloud my judgment. I also haven’t seen a ton of RNH. I think for the sake of strengthening the habs core at C, pacioretty could be dealt for RNH, but I would want a little extra. id it’s a 5 player deal, the habs would be smart to somehow get klefbom
I wouldn’t that trade yesterday 1:1. Who do you see in the 5 player trade
I would do that trade -sorry
I meant to say that I would do that trade -sorry made a typo
No way I don`t trade a 30/35 goal guy for a 20 goal guy…..
RNH for Pacioretty 1 for 1 makes so much sense for both teams it’s shocking it hasn’t happened. RNH can be what Bergeron was for Julien in Boston, and Pacioretty with McDavid is potentially a 50 goal player. Rare win for both teams. I think the only reason it hasn’t happened is one of the GMs is overvaluing his asset.
Not happy with 1 for 1. Given Max’s performance over last 5 years, Bergevin should be looking at a haul for him. If Duchene is worth what the Avs got, Max should be worth RNH plus a pick and a prospect, no? I know the Habs are not in same position as the Avs, but I don’t think it would be crazy to expect….
I would 100% do Pacioretty for RNH one for one. Brian you’ve mentioned that you see a 5 player deal between Habs and Oils a couple of times now. Curious to know which players you have in mind? Thanks!
Easy yes to Patches for RNH but would Edm do that?
Richard’s Horse: Confidence is coming back into the games of many players, and it all starts with one man: Carey Price. When he is on his game, everyone around him has an added layer of confidence. They’re more likely to try pressing a little harder offensively knowing that the man in the mask has his end covered—and theirs too. Years ago, the summer Of 2014 after the Habs lost in the Conference Finals, I got to talk to Josh Gorges a little bit. He said that after Carey got hurt they all changed the way they played because they didn’t know what they were going to get from Dustin Tokarski. It’s a mental effect that trickles through every player’s mind when from (at the time) the best goalie in the world to an untested, untried rookie. And now that we see shades of vintage Carey Price, we see confidence coming back in droves.
I also really like Jerabek’s game. He’s smart with and without the puck, and has brought some stability on the back end thus far.
RNH for Patches is a no brainer yes. He’s not leading by example right now and thing it was a major part of Habs troubles.
100% I make that trade!
I like Max- he is a gentleman, a class act both on and off the ice and when he is on, he is lethal. However the problem is that in the last few years he has been more off than on. I agree he is streaky but his down times come when the team needs him most and he is the epitome of a peripheral player. I always felt he was like Phil Kessel- in that he needs to be fed – and that doing the hard things to get the puck does not suit his game. He is the one player that we can trade one for one and get an upgrade in return.
One difference…Kessel is money in the playoffs where Max struggles in the playoffs. I like Max in the regular season but what he does on the ice he should not be the captain. Gallagher, Weber are Captains by how they play.
I’d trade 67 for RNH, it’s time to move on from Capt Max, not a leader whatsoever.
Where was he when this team needed him most these past 4 weeks ? Where is ever come playoff time?
Team needs a new
Leader
Yes I would do that trade. Can we have Puljujarvi also with him?
I was thinking the same thing…..get Puljujärvi somehow & it’s a done deal
RNH is playing great hockey right now, not seeing that same play from Pacioretty. No way is this a 1 for 1 trade, Habs would have to throw in Mete or Jerabak and then maybe there is a chance. This is based on the play of both now not years gone by.
Absolutely. Habs are weak up the middle and any improvement in that area will make up for any goals lost in the wing. I also think either Lehkonen or Scherbak can alleviate the loss of Pacioretty. Max is at that age where the game may drop off and RNH is 5 years younger. We have depth at wing but Poehling is 1or 2 years away. Slam dunk yes IMO
Absolutely 1:1 on that trade. While Pacioretty’s play may have lowered his value his contract makes up for it right now.
PS, not old pads on Price Brian, just different color scheme. Also simply went back to skates with cowling on boot as opposed to True (formerly VH skates) cowlingless boot with True blade holder. Goalie need speculation is that the higher “attack angle” on his cowlingless boot was putting strain on his hips/groin….older style cowling blade combo has lower attack angle.
I’m not eager to trade Max. He’s scored more goals in past 5 years except for 4 other players. He’s elite at his position. And he’s the captain. I’m also not convinced RNH is an elite 2C (if there is such a thing). The most points he’s ever had was 56, a while ago (albeit on a terrible team). Considering RNHs lower point total and higher cap hit, I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for more in exchange. So here’s the deal I would make: Max, Pleks and Lindgren – with Habs retaining some of Pleks salary, in exchange for RNH, Klefbom and Yamamoto. Oilers get elite scoring on the wing, a goalie prospect and a very solid defensive D. Habs get help at center, defense, and a prospect to potentially replace max one day.
Not 1 for 1. I’d want a pick or good prospect as well. This is a consistent 30 goal scorer and one of the best 5v5 snipers in the game, as frustrating as he can be sometimes. Plus, his contract gives him added value.
I don’t know RNH that well but always thought he was a big disappointment and not a good enough puck-up for our consistently high scorong , low cap hit C. That said, I agree with others that his leadership qualities are terribly lacking, and I don’t think he wanted Therrien gone – maybe still isn’t over it. But I think he has high trade value now and I can see getting a deal like this done. Lehkonen is a better overall package on the wing. Maybe once he is ready to return.
RNH would be interesting Brian but at 6M where does he slot in? He has decent production this year with 8G 7A but who would he play with on this Habs team.
What would the cost be? I would shy away from trading offense for offense, and by that I mean trading Galchenyuk.
So who do the Habs offer? Something like Plekanec, a young D and a pick? Plek makes 6M but his deal expires so Oilers saved cap space this summer. Habs have cap room for RNH and his 6M.
He is not a 1C so perhaps he is a 2C?
Top 6 Line up could look like this:
Leknonen – Drouin – Galchenyuk
Pacioretty – RNH – Gallagher
Trade him! RNH is 5 years younger and has 3 years left at $6mill a season. Patches will want i’d say $7.5-$8mill and most likely 6-8 years. I’m sure he will ask for a lot from mtl knowing he wont get it so he has an excuse to go to NYR or NYI to be close to home, can’t say i blame him for wanting to be close to family but he won’t be taking a discount to stay in MTL. Getting RNH moves Danualt to 3rd line where he should be and plekanec’s 4th line or out the door.
interested to see what you think a 5 player deal involves though Brian!
i make that trade in a heartbeat, who does pacioretty make better, and we need a centre soooo bad, it would totally change the team dynamic.
No way I would do that 1 for 1. Giving up a lot of goals and points.
This year nuge has more but patches always out performs him.
I don’t see nuge as a legitimate 1c. I don’t think you trade a 35 goal guy straight up for a 2c. 1 for 1.
Maybe Max is hurt, maybe he’s troubled, maybe his diet has sapped his energy. I don’t know. What I know is you don’t trade you top players just because their in a slump. If Max was in a 8-10goals in 7 games, no one would be advocating a trade or in the least demanding Dreiseitl in return, not RNH!
Galchenyuk in return? Thats a different story. But, at that point you have to trade Plekanec and move Danault to the 3rd line. Will Julien want that?
You also lose your top asset to acquire a proven top4 D.
I would make that deal… oilers need veterans for the young players and Montreal needs a center. Max is proven goal scorer, even though he’s streaky. I would do that deal for sure.
However, who are he 5 players in the deal you would make. I will say, max is a proven goal scorer, so I would maybe ask for a little more for max. As some have mentioned, he is a great sniper. I said I would do the trade, but I wouldn’t be quick to trade him either. We need a great return for him.
Make the trade but ask for someone like Puljarvi as well. Max has a 4.5 million salary for next year and they need to shed some. We would need to add another player too. Problem I see is Oil need a D and not sure we have that. But yes, get RNH.
RNH for Pacs? Straight up? I would do that. Pacs is going to command an impressive increase after his current contact is up, more than what RNH is getting now. We get center depth, and Edmonton gets quickness on the wing. I’m not convinced Chiarelli does it though, he seems pretty set on his centers.
After hearing what Max said about Drouin, I would absolutely do a straight up 1 for 1 deal for RNH. Had you asked me before hearing that, I would’ve told you to buzz off. A Captain of a team should never publicly speak ill of one of his players. If that was the trade, Max for RNH, do it, give Weber the C, and go from there. But I’d be fine with keeping Max too, he’s great. Wouldn’t be upset if he was traded for a good C.
I would definitely trade for RNH any way we can. If it’s straight up for Patch, I feel at worst scoring is a wash. But at best, it goes up, not only because of potential added scoring of the acquired player but of his linemates. Even though Drouin is working at center, we do still need more depth down the middle to increase team scoring so we don’t continue to rely solely on the goaltender (and with our defense now, that is even more the case than in previous years). I don’t think Patch for RNH straight up is a deal that either team will go for though. I’m not sure what a multi-player deal would look like, but there are only a handful of skaters on the team that I would consider as off limits.
Patches for Nugent-Hopkins without hesitation. I’ve wanted Pacioretty traded for a few years now, 30+ goal regular season is great but you absolutely need production in the postseason! In fact throw in that conditional 5th from L.A. for the one timer machine known as Mike Cammalleri, that guy knows how to score when it counts.
I wouldn’t make that deal. I’d rather see 67 for McDonnagh again. Both have a similar cap hit, and I think our need for a legitimate partner for Weber is more dire at the moment. We would have one of the strongest defensive corps in the NHL, still with the cap room to pursue other players (possibly RNH) with other assets
I’d do it one-for-one. MaxPac will be overpaid by 2.5-3M a year for a long time starting in 2019.
Haven’t posted in couple of months, but still been reading.
Look at all these posts! Awesome stuff. Hope that means business is going well.
As for the trade suggestion, i’d make that trade. I think Max has almost become irrelevant with the new structure on this team and our sudden dearth of wingers. And to your point, Max benefits from a long bomb style offense which this D corps just doesn’t seem either interested in or capable of.
The benefit of having a legit centre would outweigh the loss of Pacioretty and his offense, in my opinion.
Agree with you.
I would make the trade. Max seems disinterested in his play. Looks like he’s going through the motions. He’s becoming more and more of a perimeter player. Once he leaves, Weber becomes captain, as he should be.
RNH for Pacioretty ? Absolutely! It’s about filling the need. If that means over paying then so be it. I would rather do a bigger deal to help fill other needs but imagine this team with 2 top 6 centres followed by #24 and #14. That’s strength down the middle. Even if Pacioretty finished with more goals and points then RNH, I believe RNH will make the players around him better, thus creating more goals as a team and even allowing fewer. Pacioretty Is a great goal scorer, can make plays and scores off the rush. The Habs are now built more like a team that needs its wingers to crash the net, screen the goalie, tip in long distance shots and collect rebounds. That’s not Pacioretty‘a comfort zone. Also, the Habs need a strong Power Play which does not involve Pacioretty. It’s more important for a team to be strong down the middle then to revolve your offence around a winger.
This team seems to be poised to peak later this year. Maybe that’s a good thing!
I would make the deal RNH – Patch). I understand Paccioretty can be a stud scorer when things go well but, too many valleys in the season. This is not new, it has been like this for ages, but more so since he wears the “C”. He is obsessed by being a perfect captain, thinks too much, chokes under the pressure he imposes on himself.
That being said, RNH is a hard cookie to assess. Not sure he is a #1 centre. But he is a quality centre, definitely top 6 in Montreal and this is what lacks in Montreal.
For me, it just makes sense.
I would make that RN-H for MP deal. It’s not like we’d be losing any scoring.