Recrutes: Hockey scouting from a professional perspective from Grant McCagg and Habs coverage from a 33 year veteran covering the NHL from Brian Wilde.
September 9, 2017
By _1ben2_
It’s over a year later and the debate still rages on. In his latest ‘walk and talk’, Brian Wilde appeals to the Subbanistas to flip the coin over and realize that some sound obtuse.
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Thank you Tony. Welcome to uncensored Brian
This was the BEST. I don’t know how you are going to top this one.
You see, we live in a time where people want to annoint a team as winner or a loser in these trades. I even heard Mitch Melnick on air last year suggesting that some one had to lose the trade and some one has to win the trade. As you say, WHY?? Why can’t both teams win ? Sure, we can lose on age but win on leadership and points by a D man.
As Toni would say, “Let’s put all the cards on the table”. This division is led by the Stat’s crowd who feverishly work out the math why Subban is better. Ok, I can admit that Subban is better, on paper, but on ice, I can’t agree with that.
The winner of the trade is the one who lasts longer and who wins a cup. So far….. No verdict. I do know for a fact that the Habs are f’in thrilled with the trade for a lot of reasons.
Well said Brian!
Love it Brian was hoping you would say it… and then… you did!! That needed to be said for far too long. I’ve been of opinion since day one of this deal that two excellent hockey players were dealt here. Things we love about each of them. Miss Subban sometimes but sure love having Mr. Weber on the team. Really enjoyed this Brian!!
I can’t speak for others. And I can’t say I’m aware of everything that’s been posted on your twitter feed. But in my mind, I hate the trade and always will. Why? Not because Weber is “washed up.” But because by all metrics, Subban is better and it’s not even close. He’s faster, a better skater, a better passer, more creative, younger, gets more points, and becomes a beast in the playoffs and has managed to drag his team farther in the playoffs than Weber ever has. Every single Preds player who plays with Subban sports a better Corsi and better metrics. That’s not hyperbole. It’s literally everybsingle player on that roster. Regular and post season. It’s insane how good he is. But it’s not just the play. It’s the person. Subban became part of the fabric of the city at a time when he also the most electric skater on the roster since Lafleur. While the other Habs players lounged around watching Sunday football, Subban made surprise visits to the hospital almost every weekend to visit sick kids. I also know from direct personal experience – Subban was more personally active in community relations and helping sick kids than any player I have ever seen. He snap chats with a number of them even still. But I think what makes “Subbanistas” like myself so angry — It’s the sheer arrogance of the Habs organization following the trade. Almost everyone associated with the team gloated about how good Weber was going to be. Several board members had privately said “we’re going to win the Cup with Weber, we’ll worry about the contract later.” As recently as yesterday, Therrien told Marinaro that Subban play with the Habs was better than his play on the Preds – patting himself on the back for making PK one of the best D man in the NHL. It’s rubbish. It speaks to the arrogance the team has for itself, and treats fans like they’re stupid. In my opinion, again – not having read every twitter post and not agreeing that Weber is washed up – the bigger target for your wrath is the multi billion dollar hockey and real estate operation that wants to bully fans and reporters into swallowing their narrative and decided to trade away the biggest fan favorite since Roy. (And about that Roy trade…, lol)
I should have specified – more points per game.
Beautifully said. Weber is very good. PK is generational. The facts show it.
The third-defencemen on Nashville’s depth chart that can’t make his country’s Olympic team is “generational”? Hard to agree.
This is why I cannot stand the Subbanistas. Subban was the #3 defenseman for Nashville. And the reason that Nashville went so far in the playoffs ? Rinne. And that’s it. Rinne’s game falls off finally in the finals and the Preds have no chance.
Frankly, IMHO, most Subbanistas are Subban fans only and not true Habs fans. And that’s sad …
EXACTLY
I love PK as a person. His work for charities is second to none. He’s a hell of a guy. Weber is a different guy and he’s a good guy too. Again, PK being the salt of the earth does not make Shea the poison of the earth.
My only thought is this… while many do feel Subban is the superior player, many also feel Weber is the superior player. Included in this crowd is the greatest minds in all of hockey who put Weber on the first unit of Canada’s winning teams when they try to win a gold medal and they put him on the first pairing. Meanwhile, Subban can’t make the team. Again, this isn’t to say that you don’t make valid points, but the counterpoint can’t be that Weber is terrible. This has always been my point.
By “all metrics”? By all the metrics you wished to list where PK supposedly has an edge…but that’s hardly “all” of them. Weber plays a much smarter game..takes less risks, harder and more accurate shot and used more effectively, uses angles better, clears the front of the net better, is bigger, stronger, tougher…better leadership qualities as it’s never about him it’s only about the team.
So…size, sense, strength, decision-making, leadership and character are edges for WEber IMO.
the whole argument about PK being younger is also irrelevant to the present time..and as Brian pointed out..that’s all that matters as we can’t predict the future.
Weber is in his early 30s and it has been shown time and time again that elite dmen don’t start regressing until after they’re 36 or 37. WEll guess what..Subban could be anywhere by then..knowing his lust for the limelight..it won’t be Nashville either..more than likely LA or New York. So if 5 years from now WEber is still a productive top pairing dman for the Habs and PK is in New York..who won the deal?
Brian and Grant – Thanks for the back and forth. This is SUPER cool of you guys. Here’s what I think — and I would love to hear what you think.
Brian – I never said Weber was terrible. Ever. For the record, I think Weber is very good. My point was to highlight why legit hockey fans are still mad at the trade and why I think PK is better.
Let’s talk hockey —
It’s true that Weber was a top-pairing D on the Canadian Olympic team. BUT — that’s not a fair comparison to the current Habs. a) The Olympics were 4 years ago. b) those are some of the greatest teams ever assembled so the C.O.T. had other players who could make up for what Weber lacked: creativity, mobility, etc. c) the coaches adopted a hyper conservative style that they felt best fit the winner-take-all format of the series. and d) Weber never had to make other players better. He just needed to play his game.
The Habs don’t have ANYONE who can do what PK did: drive the offense, run the PP, and lift fans out of their seats while also making them feel great about their team and city. In fact, Bergevin is on record as saying his two biggest needs are a center, and a puck-moving defenseman. My personal opinion is that it’s easier to find a player who can do some of what Weber does, than what PK does ON THE HABS.
GRANT – I’m sorry, I totally get that you feel passionate about this, but your argument partly rests on personal critiques that are really hard to measure unless you personally are in that locker room or know the players on a deep level. And even if what you say is all true, it’s hard to measure how those soft personality qualities affect a team actually winning.
You said Weber has “Better leadership qualities as it’s never about him it’s only about the team?” and that “Leadership and character are edges for WEber IMO.”
How do you measure that? How do you know that? But okay – if he’s such a good leader, how come he never led the Preds past the 2nd round? How come he couldn’t lift his Haps past the 1st round this year? And why are you implying that with PK, it’s always about him?
You also said “Subban could be anywhere by then..knowing his lust for the limelight..it won’t be Nashville either..more than likely LA or New York.”
Yes, Subban likes a camera. So does every star player in every sport not called hockey. What’s your point here? I don’t get it.
I can tell you, from personal family experience, there has never been a more personal, charitable, giving, and emotionally supportive professional player in Montreal than PK Subban. I wish I could tell you more on a public forum. I am not slagging Weber or any other player. Charity work is not a competition.
I say all this to contradict your arguments that Weber is a better personal leader and the implication that with PK, it’s always about him. Trust me, I know first hand, it most certainly is not.
Now let’s talk hockey:
YES, Weber is bigger, stronger, and clears the front of the net better. But again, IMO, those aren’t qualities that will put the puck in the net, run the offense, or excite fans. And it’s not like PK is small. He’s 6 feet / 210lbs of pure muscle. These advantage are MARGINAL, at best.
Weber has a harder, more accurate shot. Very true. Which helps on the PP. He MIGHT even have better decision making – but ONLY in the D Zone. He does NOT have the better vision or creativity in the offensive Zone. He does not create offense. He does not run a PP. So how can you say his decision making is better at both ends of the ice?
Weber’s age is VERY MUCH an important consideration. Two years ago, he was visibly fatigued in the playoffs, which is why the Habs rested him for the final 4 games of the regular season. He has a lot of hard miles playing for a Western Conference team. That takes a toll, and it ain’t gonna get better.
And in my opinion, the advantages PK Subban brings to the table are better suited to the Habs needs, and the overall way the game is played now. And yes, by most metrics – PK actually makes his teammates better.
Thanks for the time, guys. Keep it up.
A lot of both sides are hockey opinions. How do you quantify the things Grant is talking about like clearing the net?
You don’t. You just watch hockey. And you know.
Leadership? Well, I talk to players and they tell me things. Weber is an excellent leader. Doesn’t mean he can change the forwards getting more than 11 goals in 6 games. But I know they think he’s a great leader.
They have different strengths and different weaknesses. At the end of the day though, they’re both excellent.
And once again and I have said this a million times…. my point has never been who is better. My point has always been stop with the Weber sucks or is washed up or was good only 5 years ago.
When someone is making the argument that Subban is the best and Weber is 180th, then I laugh at the Subbanistas. When someone goes back and forth and favours one skill set more than the other skill set, that’s fine and normal.
I get it. I think Weber is very good. Not excellent or generational. But hays my opinion. I think when fans say Weber sucks, I honestly don’t think it’s a reflection of Weber as much as it is a reflection of how those fans feel about the trade. Personally, I hate it and I always willl. And I definitely don’t like it when fans or commentators say “get over it.” Don’t underestimate how a lot of fans feel like the Habs displayed sheer arrogance with thatvtrade and in how they treat their fans in terms of how they treat their fans (and journalists too:-)
Pointing out to one game in the playoffs two seasons ago as ample proof that Weber is really slowing down is baseless. If that were the case we’d have seen evidence of lit this past season..especially in the playoffs..and that was not the case..at all. Weber..and the whole Nashville team..stunk in one Game 7. PK Subban in the Cup finals..had some stinkers. Guess that means he’s slowing down too.
I have exhausted this discussion for the past year. I do not wish to have this dissolve into a lengthy debate that takes hours of both of our time…you obviously hold Subban in much higher regard and Weber in much lower regard than I do..so this isn’t going to go anywhere. No..for many reasons Subban is not better than Weber…tons of reasons. I will just leave it at that. I thank you for your responses.
It almost seems as though the Subban led propaganda machine is still being funded by an interested party. And who would that be?? I think Brian’s walk is very fair and Grant’s reply is very accurate. I believe both players are excellent and more importantly good people.. But one thing I don’t read anywhere which I have to believe factored into the trade is this. Weber is an excellent teammate and Subban is not. Subban is about Subban first.
Love the ending! This is uncensored! Lol
You made me spit my coffee. Great rant, better ending!
Wow!
‘Nuff said
Great walk Brian. Love the uncensored you! Just a question… why didn’t you just keep walking around the block instead of going back and forth on the street? For the first time in a lot of years I am really excited about the season in September… because they look better on paper and now we have amazing Habs coverage on tap with Recrues…go Habs go!
There were always people I was going to run into that I noticed while I was walking and the sidewalk was narrow. One woman had a dog and that wold have been realllly tricky!!!!
Brian, thank you! Wahoo! One thing that people don’t mention enough is the war that was waged on social media during the summer after the trade. I remember – I think it might have been Canada Day – one of the bloggers well known for trading on statistical analysis only, started the civil war. I loved PK, was one of his biggest supporters, and had written about that support on one of the blogging sites, numerous times. But it was only a couple of days later and I’d already made my peace with it. I’ll tell you why: because moments after the trade, PK posted a video in which he mentioned “his” fans over and over. Not “Habs” fans – “his” fans. I’d never heard another Hab use those words. And then I thought, “Oh – OK. I get why they traded him.” But then I heard his conference call, where in one breath he talked about how much he loved the Montreal fanbase and how they’d always embraced him, and I was thinking “And we love you, too!!!!” And then in the next breath, he said he felt a whole lot closer to a Stanley Cup NOW. And I thought – what??? You know we’re listening to you, right? The fans that you “love” so much, and you have to say that? I loved PK, but in that instant I realized PK is only about PK. And no one player for me is bigger than the team I’d loved since childhood. And I moved on. Still felt terrible for PK, but whatever, players get traded, and this guy, for all the talk about how he was so perfect for “this market” – he fundamentally didn’t get what it really was to be a Hab. He thought he was bigger than the logo – he must have, because he obviously wasn’t afraid to publicly take swipes at the organization with reporters at the NHL awards a few weeks earlier. ANYWAY. And for goodness’ sake, we got Shea Weber in return. An amazing player. So we move on. But we COULDN’T. Because a couple of days later, the stats blogger who judges all on numbers, started posting graphs and charts about Weber’s decline, and I asked him, why are we doing this? What? And he retorted because it was a terrible trade. What? The puck hasn’t even dropped on the season? His decline, blah blah blah. I didn’t get why he was assembling the pitchfork crowd. Player A is gone and ain’t never coming back. That’s reality. Player B is great – trot out whatever stat you care for. He’s great. The pitchfork crowd grew louder and louder, with lots of encouragement. I never understood it. For what? Why? What, do you think you’re bringing him back? The futile campaign was so confusing and became nauseating. It became so nauseating that PK fans couldn’t even bring themselves to be excited over their new Hab wearing an A on his sweater for Team Canada! It became so nauseating that Mike Babcock himself had to dedicate a full minute to the infamous Man Mountain speech in which he basically called Shea Weber – no, he actually SAID Shea Weber was as good a human being as he’d ever known. Like, good god. I’ve never heard a single player who doesn’t respect the guy. But the disrespect had been created and for so many it’s still so hard to let go. PK Subban is an amazing hockey player, and I’ve never said any different. But he isn’t a Hab anymore, so I don’t really care. Shea Weber was terrific for the Habs last season and elevated during the playoffs. At one point during the first round, one analyst didn’t call him the best defenceman on the Habs; he called him the best defenceman in the entire playoffs. For those who want to keep raging about a player who left, instead of just switching teams and enjoying some hockey, keep wasting your time. The argument about the playoffs and Nashville reaching the final? They still didn’t win, and got BLOWN. OUT. In game 5, and couldn’t score a single goal in the final two most important games in franchise history. So … too bad for that team. I’m going to keep supporting mine, and if you want to leave because you love one player more than your team, just do it. The ongoing debate and rage is completely pointless. Weber’s here. That’s reality. Don’t like it? No one’s making you pay attention.
I’ve been keeping that in for a long time.
Hey Veronica. I have kept my take on this simple for a long time. Shea Weber is an excellent defenceman. Pk Subban is an excellent defenceman. Both are favourites of mine. I love both of their games for different reasons.
Where I simply can not suffer it and I know that a person has lost their head with something vindictive other than hockey is when I hear that Weber is completely inferior or washed up.
Wow!!
Watch a game or two for God’s sakes. They’re both amazing. Every hockey expert in the world thinks that Weber is one of the best players in the world. But the Subbanistas need to argue that Weber is terrible.
How can you take a person seriously when they say that.
When Canada faces the best players in the world and they need to hold a one goal lead, the smartest hockey minds send out Shea Weber. This has been the most successful run for Canada on the world stage since the 1960s. Canada has won all the gold medals at the Olympics and all of the World Cups and through Canada’s top moments for 6 years in the last 60 years, Shea Weber has been the first pairing defenceman…..
So to hear washed up? Come on, Man!! Watch a game! You’re embarrassing yourselves with that stuff.
Bravo Brian, and bravo Veronica…I could not agree more with both of you.
Perfectly said, Veronica.
PK is STILL one of the greatest Habs ever. Hated the trade. Still do!! Have not forgiven management. Like Shea Weber as a person. Great Dman, great character but not a natural leader. Neither is Paciorety. Used to be a lifetime Habs fan. Attended all the parades in the 70’s, 86’s and 93’s. But I am now proud to say…I now cheer for the Nashville Predators!! Go PK Go!! By the way…I feel the Maple Leafs are on the verge of winning the Stanley Cup while the leaderless Habs need to rebuild!! Just my opinion…
And you are more than entitled to it. Thanks for subscribing and enjoy the season whatever team you support.
You used to be a lifelong Habs fan but one trade causes you to happily jump ship ? That seems … odd.
Shea Weber is NOT a natural leader ? Hmmmmm …
Subban is one of the ‘greatest Habs ever’ ? Hmmmmm …
Well said Veronica, agree with every word
“for all the talk about how he was so perfect for “this market” – he fundamentally didn’t get what it really was to be a Hab”
Perfect! Many blame the organization for that, and there may have been a better way to channel his enthusiasm; but at the end of the day it is a team sport, and the team should always come first.
That’s it. That’s perfectly IT.
Perfect, and it should be mandatory reading for ALL Hab fans to view and HEAR.
Great closing!! Shut the f up! hahaha!
Hey Brian, that was great and bang on too. There are times when some Habs fans make my head spin. We all loved Subban but hey lets face it, that Weber character isn’t too bad either.
I usually travel to Montreal a few times a yr to catch some games. Last yr when I was there everytime Weber touched the puck and made something happen on PP the roof almost came off the building just as it did with Subban. Weber is loved by most. I honestly think the people who hate on him are people who call themselves fans yet probably never watch a full game or understand it isn’t all about flair and robust. We need to be Habs fans not player fans. GO HABS GO. Keep up the great work Brian, excellent stuff, nice touch at the end. LMAO!!! 😂👈
Thank you. It’s amazing how much wrath I get just for saying both players are good. Ha.
I was kinda expecting the STFU but when you said it I laughed.
It’s a funny thing. You say Subbanistas point towards Webers last game where he looked tired, yet every supporter of his constantly shows me the Avalanche game where PK “pulled up”
I still think 67 was more at fault but let’s not get into that.
But you’re right, I’m happy for PK, I love him as a player, but when you have guyslike Towes publically applauding the fact that Weber is no longer in their conference, that speaks volumes.
Good point about PKs back problems, it’s often overlooked when people are saying Webers washed up.
I enjoyed this COTW.
Thanks again Brian
With the back problems, I sure hope he will be awesome for many years. He’s exciting and great for the game.
And Weber is excellent too with that big shot and huge hits.
They’re different players and that should be okay.
I guarantee nobody over at The Athletic will have the balls to finish anything they do with
“Shut the FUCK up”!!!!!
Well done Brian
Go PK
Go Weber
Most of all
GO HABS!!
I’ve said this many times, it is possible to think PK is great, that Weber is great and that the trade may not have been good.
It is totally possible to hold different opinions in your head. Really.
Thanks for this Brian.
Well said Brian. I was hoping you’d touch on this subject and you did it. Great video. Both great players.
In Tampa and had a long day prepping the house (no I’m not in an evacuation area but still gonna get slammed). Flipped to twitter for news saw the WOTW and man I’m smiling ear to ear, as your voice of reason rings true, could sense your tired (like me) of that side of Habs fans, shut the fuck up! Mic drop if ever. You the man Brian!!
Man I wish you safety and health.
And thank you.
Habs fans have always been an excitable bunch, and I’ve counted myself among them since I was born. Its a real shame that there are elements in the media and the fan base than continue to take the easy way out and bring up the spectre of this trade as a way of getting attention and hits for their content. Its a cheap way to rile up the fan base and get noticed, and frankly it has to end.
Its possible, as many others including Brian have stated, to have hated the trade but recognize that Weber is a great hockey player who contributed greatly to the Habs last year. It is also possible to point out that Subban has flaws (as does Weber), without somehow assuming that talking about his flaws is disrespecting his off the ice charity work or his skill as a hockey player. Its really disappointing that this has become an “all or nothing” / “with us or against us” situation. If I have one wish for this hockey season its that we can return to reasonable and balanced debate.
That
Was
Awesome
Walk on the Wilde side video.
You really hit it outta the park with this one Brian.
And yes you can like both players
Awesome !!! Thank you
👍well said👍
Hi Brain, I am new subscriber and just watched this. Excellent and agree with your main point that both players are excellent and that everyone should move on. As a true HABS fan, we need to hope Weber continues to be healthy and productive and PK will do just fine in Nashville.
Now a challenge for you. Can you please do an uncensored “Walk On The Wilde Side” on the following: How is it that the HABS’ management (all of them from JM, MB to RD) decides to give $$$ and >>>term to a supposedly cornerstone player which they drafted and nurtured into becoming an NHL Norris trophy winner to then deciding to trade him in less than a year. Something happened! Did PK change or was management wrong. If PK changed; what was it in your opinion and if management was wrong; why are they still all there?
Been waiting for this one ….. and I will not deal with this publicly because as you can see it is a minefield.
Here’s what changed…. the situation became untenable in the room. Remember when PK said “hey I am not paid to score goals” and Max gave PK that look. This is the only time we saw it publicly but it is my feeling that that moment was the microcosm of what happened. That is my what changed. He certainly didn’t change as a hockey player right ? He’s still PK. Highly skilled.
That’s my take. You asked. I answer. That’s how I promised people this would go. This is the community I promised we would build here together.
Quote “Did PK change or was management wrong ?”
.
Management was ‘wrong’ in drafting and nuturing PK just because they traded him ? I guess the Oilers management was wrong for ‘drafting’ and nuturing Gretzky, since they traded him – right after he led them to 4 Cups in 5 years !! 😉
PK was traded because he was a problem in the dressing room and he was ‘me first’ rather than ‘team first’. He had a NM option coming up and MB got a pretty good player in return.
That was amazing. Your ending was gold!!! Hahaha
Thank you for yet another walk into reasonable talk! I am also fed up with Subbanistas…..I call them Cult 76. Why can’t we all just admit that both are great. Weber had a better regular season and how far a team goes in the playoffs isn’t a metric to judge a trade
Great points!
Oh man that list bit? had me in tears. A1
This is great. I used to be a huge PK fan when he was in Montreal. I wasn’t pleased when he got traded, but, hey we didn’t get a bag of pucks, we got Weber. I think that most Habs fans love Weber. The media, and we KNOW who they are, seems to keep stirring the pot. In June, when the Preds lost their final game, that whats-his-face Gazette guy (we know who) tweeted out that he was expecting/waiting for the PK haters to come out in force. I tweeted back that “People like you turned us against PK”. He immediately quoted me in the Gazette… lol… Never mind that I felt that it was solicited and taken out of context. I feel that these people are trolling Habs fans to get comments because that is the best way to get response/attention. lol
On another note, I find it amusing how fans from other teams, Toronto, Boston, etc. all of a sudden LIKE PK when he was the most disliked player back when he was a Hab.
Anyway, it’s like a divorce… some people are still trolling their exes to see what’s up rather than enjoying what they have in front of them.
I enjoy your posts. Well worth the money. Thanks.
Let’s develop that scenario a bit further Brian, that the situation became untenable in less than one year. Seems to me that the management team should have anticipated this, most are ex-NHL players, As we all agree, PK didn’t change either as a skilled player nor in his personality. What if Poele didn’t want a puck moving DMan, we most likely would have traded PK for a much less talented player(s) , I still recall the Patrick Roy trade, it was clear than that an inexperienced GM took the wrong decision. So back to today, can we now infer that the contract awarded to PK was not the right call. This is the same team that just decided on another long term/ not easily moveable contract to Price and will shortly need to decide one for Max. My point is that the discussion shouldn’t be focused on Subban vs Weber, we all agree, we’re over that but rather was PK’s contract the right decision at that time and if not why is the same team still all there.
Brian,
You said what I have been saying for the last year. A trade involving two great, but different players. I think Subban was an entertaining player and his charitable efforts have been spectacular. Weber is a solid leader, but more stoic than Subban. Weber did a lot of charitable work in Nashville as well. However, this was done with much less fanfare – Weber’s preference.
You hit all the points in your video… team Canada, trophies, medals, team support. Your final thoughts – priceless. Wilde Thing!
Thanks for the rant, Brian. I hope it is cathartic to a fan base still divided. The last time we divided this badly was over Halak and Price, and that just seemed to be calming down when this stirred things up gain.
This hurts. It hurts having to find negatives about PK to try and throw a switch in someone’s brain; but here goes. Grant has already given a balanced appraisal of the relative merits of both players on the ice, so I’ll just add a couple of anecdotes.
PK is a better skater than Weber. No one will dispute that. But, what didn’t happen to the Habs last year was a certain point removed in the standings because one of the best skaters in the league, with some of the best edge work in hockey, ‘blew a tire’. This was, of course, within a couple of weeks of the ‘double spinarama and cough the puck up to Scheifele’ move. PK can occasionally be as good at skating into trouble as he is skating out of it.
When Poile (and Laviolette) acquired Subban, it was ‘we want PK to be PK’. That lasted an entire year. It lasted through three successful playoff rounds. And then? Listerine. PK took the focus off the team and onto him. Now, I would have run with it, the cat was out of the bag. Give fans promotional samples of listerine, get a new corporate sponsor. But, finally, management had had enough, and they shut down PK. I’m not saying that’s what cost them the cup. Crosby, Malkin, Murray, Guentzel were the real causes of their defeat. But it certainly didn’t help.
Much comes down to emotional versus intellectual perspective. I loved PK as a hockey player and as a person. Still do. But I admire Weber as a hockey player as much as I do PK. He also seems like a fine fellow, but he is nowhere near as endearing as PK. I just know that when a GM, with a reputation as one of the best evaluators of talent in the NHL, trades a player away just before a huge NMC kicks in, there are reasons.
So, if you are now a Nashville fan, all I ask is that you evaluate PK game in game out as you would any other hockey player. Acknowledge his brain farts as much as you admire his panache. Pay attention to the effect (both positive and negative) he has on other professional athletes; athletes that have bonded with him like a brother, the way they do in a locker room. Allow yourself the liberation of considering that Bergevin made a hockey trade, one which changes our team (your former team) without making it worse.
Loved the post Brian, keep them coming. 🙂
I think the Subban-Weber trade is such a polarizing issue because it hits some many issues.. trade of a young/exciting player have been few and far btw in MTL, advanced stats see this trade opposite than many NHL people (Babcock, etc.), some have added a racial component to it.. there was something for everyone to get emotional about.
Since that trade, a portion of the media & fans.. has really turned on the Habs. A lot of coverage/comments are tainted, some more than others, with this vindictive spirit.. it’s hard to stomach.
I initially really liked Subban, his performance as a rookie in the playoffs vs. Boston was more than impressive.. the way he would rise to the occasion in the playoffs was probably my favorite thing about him during his days in MTL.
But after a while his need for attention, and the negative it had on the team, grew tiresome. His repeated risk-taking at the wrong times in the game, and the wrong areas on the ice, grew tiresome. When he started saying his skates were the issue, or say “I do more good things than bad things so I’m not gonna worry about it” (forget exact words)… that’s the day I became ok with him leaving, I didn’t this attitude at all.
I’ve played defense my whole life, I can appreciate what an elite defensive Dman can bring to a team.. and what it can do for an elite goaltender. In all the ways Grant listed, Weber is the better Dman IMO… even while there is no doubt in some aspects of the game Subban has the edge, no one is saying otherwise.
As to longevity, Weber’s style is one that is more likely to endure than Subban’s free-wheeling style.. and that bad back is worrisome. Time will tell, but the jury is still very much out on how will be more effective in the long run.
Habs even gained 1M on the salary cap, as for the length of the deal the last few years Weber is making 1M.. is either still effective and wants to play for next for nothing, or more likely will retire before then end of the deal.
I’ve more than more moved on from this trade, it’s truly tiresome how some still can’t let go or how much they overrate Subban (who is good, but generational? c’mon).
For those of us who were able to absorb this deal by looking at it objectively, you spoke for a lot of us when you asked the subbanistas to just shut up already… this was NOT a Gomez for McDonaugh type deal, stop ranting & raving like it was one. Geez. We have enough things happening with the current lineup to be hopeful & worried about.. let’s talk about that, and without the vindictive “I still hate them for Subban” undertones, please.
U just can’t evaluate a trade involving 2 players aged 28+ with 8 years left in their contract 1 year after the deal.
should have said, u can evaluate a trade like that but u got to leave space for a change.
1 thing for sure, this is not a case closed at all!
Nice walk on the Wild Side Brian…feels good to get things off your chest doesn’t it? Anyway great one once again keep up the great work guys loving your site…and can’t WAIT for the season to start!!
It’s the same thing I have said for ages, with the added, please leave me alone when all I say is Weber is a good player….
Great points…
based on twitter this wasn’t what I was expected! basically a call for sanity…not a bashing of a player.
I know. Isn’t it crazy? All I did is make the argument that they’re both good players, and please stop hassling me all day if you are because I am drained.
Hahahaaaaa!!! That´s awesome Brian! Thank you! It´s such a simple concept: both players can be good. period.
And an added bonus is I get to wax nostalgic about my old home town as you walk the streets of Montreal.
That was Melrose in NDG. Thank you. I will be walking a lot of streets. Ha. Hold it. That didn’t sound very good. lol
Sports is Entertainment. As a hockey fan, you only have a 3.33% chance of winning the cup each year based on the fact that there are 30 teams. So if you don’t win you should at least enjoy watching your team and being entertained. As a hab fan, PK Subban provided my with that entertainment. He was fun to watch on and off the ice and gave me my fill over the course of a season even when victories were lacking. Weber is a great player but as a person who desires to be entertained (which is what all sports fans want otherwise we wouldn’t be watching) he cannot compensate in other ways. So if you’re gonna win or you’re gonna lose, I’d rather do it with PK than anyone else. Been watching the Habs since I was little and was a season Ticket holder for a decade. Last year I did not watch a single game, not even during playoffs…..I’m just totally turned off and gave up.
This is a perfectly good take. I know. It’s frustrating. I love the Impact and they’re killing me.
I get over it long time ago. those 4 years your talking about that was the only thing was bothering me. loved Subban and will always do. the ending was Hilarious 🙂
Bravo!!!!!
Wow, that was phenomenal, I did not see that ending coming at all, especially from you Brian!! Amazing 🙂
Thanks Alex. I am happy that you liked it. I didn’t criticize PK Subban. That’s what kills me about the people who hate it. They clearly haven’t seen it and have no idea what I am saying.
Just awesome worth the subscription. You always seem to make everything perfectly clear.
STFU….I did NOT see that coming!! Haha But it had to be said.
Bravo!!
Man Brian that was great. Not sure how many of these “Weber is finished” people watched it but it should be manditory watching for all Habs fans.